Is Living an “Option” too?
When hooligans in the guise of cultural activists thrashed women in a pub, one response I saw in a few Internet forums was, “Why are we devoting so much time to protecting people’s rights to drink? After all, drinking is not a necessity”. When they threaten those celeberating Valentine’s Day, we are told that Valentine’s is after all a Western import, a luxury - not a necessity. Somewhere, there is a feeling that these are all activities that only matter to an elite few and are therefore not worth defending. These are just “options” we are told; we don’t really need them.
But living? Is living an “option” too? A luxury? In one of the saddest things I’ve read recently, a 15-year old schoolgirl in Dakshina Kannada committed suicide after being harassed by the Hindutva brigade. Her crime? Daring to be friendly with a Muslim man. In a bizarre twist, the man has been charged with abetting suicide. The State Government, in what seems to be the norm, is yet to act with any decisiveness.
Shame on you Yeddyurappa! You have blood on your hands.
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This is a common bait-and-switch tactic to turn the conversation from “women should be free to go where ever they like” to having to defend the consumption of alcohol.
I hope that this switch in topic will not be picked up by the media, and we end up being given a list of good and bad list regarding alcohol consumption!
This is not the need of the hour!
Yes. Unfortunately, even so-called eminent media personalities have started obfuscating the issue… there are pieces in the newspapers debating “drinking culture” rather than hooliganism.
Apu, atleast in this case that you have finally mentioned , there is a different side of the story given by the police - that the girl and the guy were friendly, and the girl’s father has filed a complaint of rape against the guy, as even consensual sex for a minor can be considered as a rape. Of course, there could be a hindutva and hooliganism angle to the same, which of course is not to be tolerated. All I am saying is, in this case, we really dont know the truth, as yet. Therefore, to say that her suicide was induced by them alone, is not known as of today. We also dont know, if the guy that she went with is himself, is free of all guilt.
Its shocking. And sad. But isnt it sadder that those who actually harassed these girls are roaming around looking for more people to impose their ideological mores and rules on, regardless of whether or not Salim is guilty of anything?
The point you bring up about “living” as an option is interesting because it is oddly similar to an exercise in reductionism. I mean, the cultural angle is one thing, but the right to drink or the right to celebrate V-day or the right to wear clothes of one’s liking are defendable on one level but also can get complicated if they interfere with the functioning of a society, whatever the society’s accepted definitions are. I guess, my point is not to defend or condone hooliganism or justify moral policing, but only that cultural fundamentalist backlash or social unrest is to be expected, particulary if the society is at the fringes of two waves of civilizations. Example: Should I choose to do so, will I be able to defend my right to not wear clothes in public? At some point on this reductionist slope my freedom irritates the society. The law to some extent defines these points, but beyond that there are large areas of grey, where the rights of a society and an individual continue to collide in endless struggles, likely ad infintum. Another example: my right to talk loudly on my cellphone in a bus because I cant hear clearly enough, but I’m being an absolute menace to the people around me. Or playing loud music in an apartment complex. Just to keep the discussion going.
Lastly, I found the following blog post by Sagarika Ghose to be quite balanced, in that, I think, she does a good job of condemning wild hooliganism against Westernization but also posing a reflective question to the young and easily influenced generations on what parts of “Western culture” are worth imitating and protesting for, and what are not. I guess in a country with such a rich history and cultural legacy, it should come as no surprise if there is a generational/societal clash over what size of sieves be used to let external cultures in. Note: I am only playing a sociological devil’s advocate.
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/sagarikaghose/223/53147/panties-and-perverts.html
If at all, the hooligans harassed the girl, it is indeed a sad thing that they might be walking around free.I was only wondering if this was the best example to prove their hooliganism. Media,has a habit of upholding the popular opinion, when it knows, that there is a frenzy in the public’s mind.Since there were two sides to the story, I was just wondering, if one ought to wait till the truth comes out.
Regarding the second aspect of your argument. For one, should we necessarily worry about the ‘western influences’ ? I am just referring the term western influence. We have borrowed liberal views in several matters from the west, and we consider those as aspects of our social development. At the same time, drinking, is not necessarily western, is it?
Do we need to see this as a ‘western influence’ after all?
But I do agree to sagarika’s argument, that drinking , is not something that we need to celebrate after all. Apu, I am not sure, what was said, in the post that you read, but I would also have us talk about the bigger issue in this regard, which is an intrusion to basic human rights.Srihari, there are gray areas regarding personal rights, but, is this actually a society’s irritation, or just one party’s irritation?
BD
I agree with you that its probably better to wait for the truth to come out - if it does.
On the grey areas in personal rights, I think in this particular case, it is quite clearly a political party trying to whip up some frenzy. But there is likely a section of society which is irritated at this, either overtly or subtly. I’m not justifying anybody’s actions. Just observing.
In that particular case, the continuing media reports seem to indicate that the issue was the “moral police” pulling up the girl for her talking to a Muslim boy (there is another such incident in today’s papers, so increasingly, in Karnataka, this is not a rarity), not the girl being abducted. If that was the case, why was no mention of it made at the police station when the girl and the boy were taken there, and her father was also called?
Now, it is true that certain sections of society are adopting behaviours that may be alien to another section - one can even say that disapproval is to be expected - how this disapproval should be expressed is the question. And this is not an academic question for women - it is not a reductionist argument - today it is drinking/wearing western clothes - increasingly, it is socialising with members of other communities - soon, it will extend to every aspect of life, if left unchecked.
And reg Sagarika’s argument - I found it devoid of actual substance under the guise of advising Indian youth to reflect - I think she fails to realise that people (including youngsters) don’t fall into one camp or another - people may have ’so-called’ elite tastes in one aspect and be quite traditional in another - for a clear answer to Sagarika, check this post out : http://youngfeminists.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/what-lies-beneath/.
Okay, clearly, from Anindita’s post, and the comments to her post, and comparing your views on it with my own, it is apparent that we are all dissecting the issue using different scalpels from different viewpoints….it seems like we are all scavenging the issue to what suits our own ideology the most. I still find Sagarika’s viewpoint balanced, although she probably chose a fairly rambling/ineffective way of expressing it….its classic curse of the moderates… where invariably, the harshest criticism is usually reserved not for the ones leaning far on one side or the other, but for the ones in the middle, who are attempting to bring out the adequacies or inadequacies of both sides. If I may share with you what I thought was the substance of her argument:
“Yet the dilemma is that groups like the Sri Rama Sene force the thoughtful Indian to defend things he may see as a fundamental right, but does not necessarily want to defend. However much we may hate the Sene, upholding the commercially-driven Valentine’s Day as a supreme cultural resource, or seeing the pub as the shining symbol of our social ‘freedom’ may not be forward movement for India.”
That being said, I think people are absolutely justified in treating the Mangalore incident as a feminist issue, because it is clearly a case where women’s rights and freedom to do what they want (drink,in this case) were violated. But her article was about more than that, it was about the Sene’s plans to create problems on V-day. I dont see how there is a feminist angle to the V-day issue? Thats where the Pink Chaddi folks got in the mix of things… That is clearly a socio-cultural issue. And from my perspective,recognizing that there is more to it doesnt make any article “hollow”, as the critics point out. Rabid feminism is as unreasonable than rabid hooliganism.
Sri - I don’t think it is anyone’s point that Valentine’s Day should be upheld or that pub drinking is necessarily the best thing that’s happened to Indian youth. However, SG’s tone is patronising - as I said, pub drinking or other so-called ‘elite’ activities are not ‘exclusive’ - no one spends all of his/her time at the pub - to brand youngsters as commercialised/over westernized/indulgent etc is becoming a fashion. Does she have any idea what these youngsters do in their spare time? Why generalize? More importantly, no one needs to prove their credentials in order to be able to enjoy oneself. Framing the debate in this fashion is shifting the blame on the victims without really looking into the issue. SG also ignores issues such as class divides while seeming to talk about them. For instance, the radically different opportunities available to students from Kannada and English mediums - how is this affecting youngsters? Are certain young people falling easy prey to the Senes rhetoric in such an atmosphere? These are things to really address rather than the so-called westernised behaviour of a set of people but of course, the media doesn’t want to look at them.
Now, regarding the V-Day issue, clearly it is a feminist issue while being a socio-cultural issue because the idea is that “our” women need to be protected. Why are these groups so against young men and women fraternizing? Precisely because women’s honour is seen as a community’s honour and therefore a community “responsibility”. There is always a fear that a girl will walk off with the “wrong” sort of fellow (in terms of caste/status/region/religion etc etc).
As as for your last line, “Rabid feminism is as unreasonable than rabid hooliganism.”, I must say it saddens me. To equate a line of thought (however stringent it may be) with infringements on safety is a dangerous line. Rabid feminism may be an unreasonable line of thought, but no one can compel you into adopting it. It isn’t breaking your arm or clouting you on the head. Whereas rabid hooliganism is increasingly, in this state, leading to violence. I think there is a HUGE difference between the two.
Apu - yes, SG did sound patronizing. I think there was too much nitpicking into her article’s rambling rather than her substance, which I think is valid, and we may differ on that, which is fine. I agree that no one needs to prove their credentials, and no one said that youngsters spend all their time at pubs, but dismissing her article as hollow is not doing her any justice. Her Nehruvian comparisons were awful. She didnt do a good job with the article. But still she is trying to shine the light on a difficult topic, and though the light is imperfect, I will applaud her for attempting it. My contention is that this is a case of shooting the messenger.
I think you have a point in that the matter of women’s honour etc makes it a feminist issue, but the V-day issue must be seen in the context of the Sene’s long history of creating nuisance, which is indicative of their mindset - fashion shows, MF Hussain’s art exhibitions, churches, have all been attacked.
On the last point, plonk!! I meant to say rabid feminism is no less unreasonable than rabid hooliganism, or for that matter rabid proselytizing or rabid nationalism. The point is that, taken to an extreme any ideology can become flagitious; and the unreasonableness doesnt stem from the ideology itself, but from the firebrand rage that can result from extremism that is becoming all too common. But look, I am sorry if I came across as creating an equivalence between rabid feminism and rabid hooliganism, (which clearly I cannot because hooliganism has no ideology), and I fully agree that there is a difference between the two reactions in this particular case. The rabidity isnt just in starting a fire, but also in fueling and stoking it. Thats my point, and I’m sorry that it makes you sad.